Monday, June 04, 2007

the following is my comment in response to a series of comments at dan's blog. a person called blamin insists that it is impossible to feed the world using organic farming.

of course we could feed the world organically and less chemically (petroleum) intensively! it can be done and it will be done.

all we need to do is focus our society's energy on replacing the drug of choice, up til now petroleum, with a new drug, a new energy source. or perhaps our original energy source, the sun.

considering the advances in technology that we've seen in just the last twenty years, can you have any doubt that if we tried, as in man-on-the-moon type tried, we could become 100% renewably powered in twenty years? i know we can do it if we try. getting "us" to try is another story.

it seems to me that what we have now are fat cats milking obsolete resources dry and are delaying the inevitable at the public's expense. in terms of energy and in terms of organic farming. i don't blame them, the fat cats, that is. i mean afterall, they have the implicit consent of a frantic, paranoid, sleazy, cheesy, shopaholic, clueless population of the governed. and they have the ability. wouldn't you do the same? freedom for everyone, especially the ones with the most money and power to forever increase their share of the money and power!
(yes i'm being sarcastic)

is there any argument that industry lobbyists literally write legislation (ie, how to grab taxpayer money and/or re-write the laws to benefit them and their friends) in our US Congress?

blamin, we can try, indeed. i totally agree that having all the answers is not a worthy goal for me, or society. but we have to sort the wheat from the chaff. we must decide for ourselves as a society, many issues of immediate consequence in countless lives around the world. i don't grant the bush administration one ounce of credibility. the great w, bush II, emperor of babylon, why should i? after being lied to so many times, there comes a point that you don't take seriously anything that comes out of his mouth.


blamin said...

last things first. What's your alternative to Bush? If lying is your hangup it surely can't be Hillary. So who is it?

So, your basic thesis to my statement that organic farming won't work, is "if we try really, really, hard", we can make it work? You may be be correct, because I can't foresee the future, I only know what we are capable of now. As of now, we aren't capable of feeding the world with organic farming, even if we immediately went 100% organic.

I do agree however...we can try! Afterall, in a capitalist, democratic society "trying" has produced uncountable wonderful things Isn't it great to live in a society that rewards such thinking! There's just no telling what free man, with incentive to suceed can achieve.

You may not believe it, but I'm a great lover of the outdoors, that's what drew me to crallspace in the begininning - his exceptional talent for capturing nature via photography, (not withstanding what I consider his misguided political views). Furthermore, clear cutting and strip malls piss me the hell right on off! But I would never presume to tell another what to do with their property (although I won't hesitate to suggest), as long as they're not harming others.

Your rant against the "evil" Corporations ring a little hollow. Just like any group, you can find "good" and "bad" in corps. I'm guessing you know who owns corps, for the most part ordinary citizens. As I said before you can find bad in any group, that goes for ordinary citizens, Chief executive officers, priest, school teachers, firemen, politicians, journalist, bloggers, and environmentalist.

For a great look at "environmentalist gone bad" research the real history of DDT for an example of damage that over zelous environmentlist can cause - the death of tens if not hundreds of millions of people. Another example - the long-lasting light bulb - filled with deadly mercury and produced in China, the biggest polluter on the planet.

And corporations, just like environmentalist, will do everything in there power to lobby the government towards their ideas.

My whole point is it's time for a little reasoned debate, I'm so tired of people on both sides of the political spectrum being so damn self-righteous, that they automatically dismiss an opposing point of view. Contrary to what you may believe there's a whole lot of good in conservative philosophy, liberal philosophy has historically been shown to be a failure, although it does have its good points. Perhaps you should check into the libertarian philosophy. (I use "conservative" and "liberal" as they are defined in America today, a look at history will show a much different definition.)

So, ya, organic farming? Let's try our best, just don't bet the farm on it, after all, being prepared is the wisest choice.

I guess that's long-winded enough for now, I know the attention span of the typical blogger is kind of short (could that be why the "sound-bite" news media is so popular?)

tkn said...


thanks for the comment.

i don't like hilary clinton or the democrat party, but i don't like republicans more. i would like to see a third party candidate win, perhaps the unity ticket will create a stir in 08.

i agree, we can't become 100% organic tomorrow. many people would starve. i do believe, however, that if we were to put forth the kind of focussed effort we experienced with the moon landing and/or ww2, into true environmental sustainability, we could pull it off in several years, say 10-20.

i know not all corporations are bad, but i didn't really say that. but do you not feel like a peon in a world ruled by the mega elite?

i wish you lived in corvallis and could come to the forum on saturdays. because i totally agree, we need to put aside our egos and inflamed rhetoric and reach some common ground on a lot of important issues. i'm conservative too. i believe in balanced budgeting and not leaving future generations in debt. isn't that a conservative belief?

anyways, thanks again and i look forward to hearing more of your ideas.

crallspace said...

Blamin shows up once every 3 - 5 months, leaves a few comments trumpetting right-wing ideas that reflect a belief that there truely is a free market in the US, we all have the same economic opportunities- the rest are just excuses and laziness, and that there is some pure, well-intentioned people running the conservative party and the nation's govt... then, some blameshifting of the Democratic piƱata du jour, some accusation about "drinkin' the kool-aid" then, he disappears again. It's a temporary, painful reminder of the reality of many, many Americans outside our semi-Green bubble.

It's the result of the Fox News-like misinformation barrage the Right has thrown at the common man for ions, and somehow, succeeds by stealing their mind and any morsel of common sense. Like puppets, swayed into voting against their own interests, then getting mad at those who try to educate them.

At least that's been my experience with Blamin. May yours be different and enlightening... perhaps for him.

blamin said...


It’s refreshing to talk to someone with an open mind.

I happen to be a conservationist, who believes this country waste too much. And it literally make me sick to my stomach when I see a beautiful tract of land bulldozed under just because some developer who sits on the county commission believes we just “have to have” another strip mall, or shopping center. For the life of me, I can’t understand how anybody would rather look at concrete and asphalt instead of a brook in a forest.

I also happen to believe there are some in today’s environmental cause that have “gone off the deep end”. It’s frustrating because many times when I’m trying to make the case against another unneeded shopping center, my conservative friends lump me in with the EnviroFanatics. – Just like a certain common acquaintance we have, attempts to lump me in with conservative fanatics.

I would love to visit Corvallis sometime! I’m addicted to hiking, and have had Oregon in my sites for a few years now. I promised my wife, we’d hike in Utah this year, perhaps I can talk her into a trip to Oregon next year.


You must have me confused with someone else. You’re constantly projecting onto me, your stereotypical (and totally incorrect) idea of what a conservative is and how or what they believe. For instance, I’ve never made the argument about people being lazy, and I challenge you to find an example. As a matter of fact, I never claimed to be conservative, I just agree with many of their beliefs, and will sometimes play “devils advocate” in an attempt to gauge how informed someone really is. I do admit I sometimes post a sarcastic comment after being attacked.

Just like you did above, you typically rant a little bit, totally ignore, or attempt to reshape the points I make, force them into your little peg holes, and then wrap it all up neatly with some comment about being brainwashed by Fox.

That’s a hell of a debating technique you have. Do you find that it’s effective in changing minds? Or is your technique more of a “preaching to the choir” strategy?

The reason I “stop by” every few months is because I, unlike you, appreciate a different perspective. And to check out the photo’s of course!

crallspace said...

I'm pretty sure it's you I was referring to. I'm just going off what I've seen and read in your comments. Maybe I could've made it more specific, but I am not just looking to peg you down with other cons. Maybe you do the Devil's Advocate thing too often for me to differentiate.

You have told me that you were a "card carrying" member of greenpeace but magically woke up one day. You don't have to claim to be a conservative... you side with their ideology whenever you comment and attempt to put me down, so whether you claim the banner or not doesn't matter.

You mention your love of the outdoors and disgust of waste. We share that common ground, but I find it complicated to understand how anyone of that mindset could have an ounce of respect for the Bush gang or be sympathetic to today's so-called "conservative" ideals. My love of the environment, personally, drives a lot of my beliefs and interpretations of politics today.

I know for sure that you have been blowing the Bush horn more than once in the Crallspace comments section. I used to appreciate that perspective, but over and over, I see that it's built on fear, lies and jingoism. And pardon me if I'm mistaken, but aside from the occasional "beautiful forest photo, Crall..." your comments make you come off as a conservo-fanatic, "drinking the kool-aid" as you accuse others of.

tkn said...

perhaps it is a reflection of my hit counter relative to yours dan, or perhaps it is just my nature, but i'm going to refrain from attacking blamin.

is it true that you support president bush, blamin? i'm just curious.

and do you think its good that industry lobbyists write national legislation and chair oversight agencies and committees?

i think its fascinating that we have already found common ground in terms of our respect for our home, earth. and i hope you guys, both will know peace.

i'm tired and i need to rest.

blamin said...


The reason you mostly see just disagreement from me is because you've dozens of people commenting on your blog that agree with you, there's rarely need for me to be another yes man. Thinking people that can disagree is what truley makes for good debate, at the same time opening up possible unconsidered points for both sides.

I won't blindly accept statements from those I do agree with, much less those I disagree with.

Mr. Tim

I agree with Bush on somethings, disagree on others.

This most recent immigration bill is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever witnessed, the prez has lost his fricking mind on this one!

I believe the war in Iraq was the best course of action (being familiar with history, current events in the Middle East, and geography), but I completely hate how he has waged this war.

He took over a nation in the beginning of a recession, and has piloted a pretty good course of economic prosperity. Then he turns around and helps pass unfunded mandates in education and medicare.

His environmental policies have been kind of lacking. As far as the "man caused global warming" debate he's not done much, many would argue for good reason. On other environmental issues he's been consitantly neutral.

The global warming issue aside, most of the "good" fights involving the environment are done on the local and state level. That's were the real damage is done, mostly due to unresticted "development".

He's appointed excellent constitutionalist judges, while appointing apparent incompetents to cabinet positions (but haven't most presidents done the same with their cabinet?)

No he's not the BushHitler people make him out to be, and he's not an incompetent like Carter or Clinton. At the same time he's no Kennedy or Regan either.

He's basically mediocre. But considering the alternative (Gore the sayanythingtogainpowerlunatic) I'll take mediocre anyday. To bad we didn't have a decent third choice!!!